Sel at sea

Thursday, March 14, 2013

'We all need heroes and heroines:' Interview with Archbishop Desmond Tutu




Retired Episcopalian archbishop Desmond Tutu, the Nobel Peace Prize winner, sat down with me on board the MV Explorer for a wide-ranging conversation about South Africa's emergence from apartheid, his criticism of Israeli policies toward Palestinians, eradicating poverty and the "dehumanizing" effects two years of civil war in Syria is having on the wider world.

Q. How did South African people, after the 1994 election that ended apartheid, avoid bloodshed?
D.T.: By the skin of our teeth. Frederik Willem de Klerk [the seventh and last president of apartheid-era South Africa], did a courageous thing and negotiated a peaceful solution, even though he had no idea what would happen to white people. But we knew any uprising by us would be crushed by the soldiers and police.

Q.  What was the mission of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission?
D.T.: The Commission enabled offenders to come forward, admit their guilt and receive amnesty. Nelson Mandela had the moral authority to say to people, 'Let's forgive, there's no need for revenge.' For 37 years, Mandela had been at the helm, and having served 21 years in prison made him even more credible. We did not want retributive justice. We chose restorative justice. There were three parts to the commission's work.  The first phase enabled victims to tell their story. Second, offenders confessed their politically motivated crimes and were granted amnesty. Third, the victims, for the sake of living in a peaceful country, learned to forgive. We knew our justice system would be overloaded. We did not choose compensation or reparation.

Q.  How would you resolve the Palestinian-Israeli conflict?
D.T.: Israel does not want another Holocaust so the world keeps reassuring them. I have visited Gaza several times, the situation there is unacceptable. I am not anti-Semitic. I am anti-injustice. The tragedy is that Israelis are dehumanizing themselves by acting the way they are. These young, armed Israeli soldiers at  checkpoints have the power of life and death. I am not going to keep quiet when I see injustice. I learned from the Bible that our God tells us to help the downtrodden. A two-state solution, guaranteed by a global unit, is the only solution. 

Q.  How about poverty such as we saw in Burma?
D.T.: We all need heroes and heroines. Aung San Suu Kyi has played a great role in appeasing the military.  Her father founded the democratic movement. I am deeply concerned about poverty. In the capitalist system, competition and rivalry are the keys. You not only want to beat your rival, you want to wipe the floor with him. Such behavior brings out the worst in us. Societies such as in the Nordic countries are increasingly egalitarian, moving in the right direction. They are saying, 'We are compassionate, we care for one another,' unlike [former U.S. Republican presidential nominee] Mr. Romney who said he did not care about 47 percent of the population, calling them 'sponges.'

Q. What can be done about the situation in Syria? 
D.T.: How is it possible for a leader to bomb his own people? To have snipers on rooftops picking out children to kill? The situation is abominable. The U.N. is the only government of the world, but is not doing enough. Kofi Annan gave up trying. We, the citizens of the world, are being dehumanized with what is happening in Syria. They are part of our family.

Q.  What do you think of the newly elected Roman Catholic pope?
D.T.: I have only two points of advice for the Catholic Church. One, make celibacy a voluntary requirement for ordination. Two, allow women to become priests.

Q.  What advice do you have for the young people on board this ship?
D.T.:  Form an anti-war organization. Tell the leaders of the world to act in a peace-loving manner. Work toward a world without nuclear power.

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